Coast Guard SAR

[Thor]

Ok, guys, which is better & why. Over half of my career was spent with Navy helicopter units that had a secondary SAR mission. Yet, except for ONE episode on Combat SAR, I don't ever see anything on the Discovery Channel, The History Channel or even the Discovery Military channel about Navy SAR.

[fishnfanatic]

Well, since I'm a retired coastie, you know what i'm going to say.  Especially in one SAR case I was on looking for survivors of a hurricane.  The cutter I was on launched a helo, and found the survivors, but it was the Navy that rescued them and took all the credit. 

But when it boils down to it, does it really matter as long as lives and property are saved?

[Rick Durgin]

The Coast Guard primary mission was sar when i was in. now days i'm not sure.
Navy primary mission is not sar. Coast Guard is better at the sar role in my opinion
since we train for it all the time and do it all the time. just my biased opinion.
tks/Rick

[Bilgerat]

I've been out since 95 and I have NO idea how things are run since we became part of Homeland Security.  SAR was an everyday occurence back in my "day", from the Cutter Sherman leaving Boston during Christmas "break" to tow back a "Port O Gee" fishing vessel, to using the recreational boats in LaMoure North by God Dakota.

Some of it was fun, most of it was Sphincter Control Time.

[Rick Durgin]

Bilge,

i agree, retired 95 also.

[sardaddy]

Well, being as I am still active duty perhaps I can shed some light on some of the questions.

As far as how the CG operates under HLS, it isn't too much different than when we were DOT. We have a few units that are now strictly for security and have no SAR missions. But other that that not a really huge change in day to day ops for other units. To sum it up a senior officer said this: "Homeland security is our number one mission but SAR is 1a".

Now for which is better in SAR. If you are talking straight up Search and rescue (non combat) I can readily say the Coast Guard. Why? Because it is still pretty much our primary mission and we do it a lot and when we have down time we are training for it. We are integrated into the National SAR System whereas the Navy is used as a backup in that system.

Nothing against the Navy, they are good at what they do but SAR does not hold the relevance or the focus as it does in the Coast Guard. Quick case in point. Coast Guard SAR stations hold a B-0 launch time basically meaning they must launch as soon as possible but for sure within 30 minutes. Most Navy rescue stations maintain a B-2 meaning they must be gone within two hours. Not because they are lazy but because they are not in the primary SAR system. So they don't need to train as much.

When it comes right down to the searching portion, eyeballs are eyeballs and they see the same no matter what service. The CG just has a better system of getting those eyeballs to the right location to start the search.

The only reason you see more CG rescues on the discovery channel is that we do more rescues which means more footage.

[ollie]

Not helicopters, but when I was in from 67-71, I was on a cutter that did SAR patrols. We were out there "Just In Case." It was ingrained in us. Our whole life was SAR.

ollie

[sardaddy]

been a long time but I figured I would reply to greenhat anyway. Yes, the PJs are high speed and yes I know it was tongue in cheek in reference to the conversation but you are right. The PJs go in, kick ass and take names. However, I will give our (CG) ASTs their props.

The rescues made by PJs is 95% or more of military personnel. Who while prone to panic, will most likely be a bit more calm than your typical civilian. They are also usually in much better physical condition more prone to listen and follow directions. Their training is what sets them apart, they can do this in a combat zone under extreme conditions. A very high speed, low drag mission.

A CG rescue swimmer will rarely conduct a military rescue. But they do train for downed pilots in the water all the time. They normally face paniced, hypothermic survivors their entire careers. The survivors range from extremely overweight men and women to very small children. The youngest I have had in my aircraft was about three weeks old. They don't go into combat but they face some diverse conditions.

So both are very good at their specific jobs but I would go out on a limb and say that while the Air Force PJs are highly trained in what they do, their actual experience in live rescues on average is far less than the average actual experience of a CG AST.l

[vftb]

One ( the Aviator) was killed, with his Air Force crew, while flying a combat SAR mission attempting to rescue a Marine pilot.

This refers to a Vietnam incident, but I think that you'll find that CG aviators have been involved in combat rescues.  

[AbnJack]

When it comes right down to the searching portion, eyeballs are eyeballs and they see the same no matter what service. The CG just has a better system of getting those eyeballs to the right location to start the search.


Not disagreeing at all. Just curious, as a 13F we trained on scanning techniques, and diff types of optics and/or night vision devices. You guys do the same, right? When it comes down to it, mission accomplishment would be dependent on getting "eyes on target". I'd bet you guys do some amount of traing on this wouldn't you?

[vftb]

I'd bet you guys do some amount of traing on this wouldn't you?

The answer would be yes.  A word of caution, take my input on operational matters with a large grain of salt; it's been a long time.  In addition to being a long time, I was never directly involved with SAR missions or units.  The only point to be made out of my posting is that CG aviators have been and probably still are involved in combat SAR missions.

[sardaddy]

"Not disagreeing at all. Just curious, as a 13F we trained on scanning techniques, and diff types of optics and/or night vision devices. You guys do the same, right? When it comes down to it, mission accomplishment would be dependent on getting "eyes on target". I'd bet you guys do some amount of traing on this wouldn't you?"

Well when I said we had a better system, I didn't really mean the actual scanning techniques. We (aviation) don't really practice that. We are usually moving pretty quickly (around 90 kts) so we can cover a larger area so we can't use the slow progressive techniques that work in your job of fire support.

What I meant was that we (the Coast Guard, not me) have developed search procedures and search patterns that allow us a very good opportunity to find the needle in the haystack. We don't always find what we are looking for but with a bit of art and science we do find a lot of folks who had no way to tell us if we were getting hot or cold.

And once we get on scene, fuggedaboutit.  A well oiled machine.

[fishnfanatic]

One ( the Aviator) was killed, with his Air Force crew, while flying a combat SAR mission attempting to rescue a Marine pilot.

This refers to a Vietnam incident, but I think that you'll find that CG aviators have been involved in combat rescues. 

In fact they have been involved.  Some were flying the "Jolly Green Giants" in Nam. rescuing pilots shot down over land, and water.

[vftb]

Probably not so well known, because CG pilots were on loan to other branches.

[EX-CG-GM]

Maybe it's the influence of "The Guardian:" but it seems most discussions about SAR dwell primarily on the aviation aspects of SAR.  There are probably more SAR cases handled by the CG's surface assets then by the aviation community.  The movie The Perfect Storm" shows a bit of that.  One user here was on the Tamaroa which actually took part in that op.

Although I spent most of my time on the big white ones, as opposed to patrol boats or MLB's, we used to pull SAR patrols on a regular basis.  Even towed in whaling ship complete with three whales once.

And there was the old Ponchartrain's moment of fame.  Back in the late 50's an airliner ditched in the middle of the Pacific.  The Ponch rescued everyone on board the plane.